Morgan J Ingram
SUMMARY
What should be included in a proper structured onboarding process and what are the qualities of a competent sales manager?
A competent sales manager should be a proactive coach, take on new assignments, and be open to feedback. They should also build a proper, structured onboarding process over time.
What are some efficient methods for integrating new sales representatives into a business?
The respondents contend that it is crucial for the onboarding process to give new sales reps a thorough understanding of the company's goal, vision, and values as well as the competitive environment. Before allowing new reps to make calls, they advise emphasizing soft skills like cold calling and email writing and offering opportunities for certification and shadowing. To prevent overwhelming the reps, product training should come last in the process.
What really happens during a cold call, and how can you do it effectively?
In a nutshell, the process of a cold call should be based on formulae rather than scripts, with an emphasis on output and outcomes and an awareness of the unique strengths and weaknesses of the particular rep.
TRANSCRIPT
Marcus Cauchi: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome back to The Inquisitor Podcast with me, Marcus Cauchi. Today, I'm genuinely delighted to have a bit of a megastar Morgan J Ingram, who's the director of Sales Execution and Evolution at JB Sales Training. Morgan, welcome.
Morgan J Ingram: Thanks for having me, Marcus. Happy to be here.
Marcus Cauchi: Excellent. Morgan, you, you work with hundreds of SDRs, so sales development reps
over the course of each year. I'm really curious to understand why is it they are largely mistreated and undervalued?
Why are SDRs largely mistreated and undervalued?
Morgan J Ingram: I think that's because that's how the system has set them up to be undervalued, right? So when you come in, it's like, Hey, your entry level job, all you're doing is cold calling. All you're doing is emailing and just get after it.
And there's no appreciation of that. Now, organizations have started to do a good job on summons to start giving them like, hey, congrats, but most don't, like when they source a deal, they don't get any congrats. It's just like, Oh, you hit a [00:01:00] hundred percent of quota, like, go do it again. And so now you're just undervalued.
You're like, man, I don't get any props for what I'm doing. I, I want to at least get some recognition. And managers, leaders sometimes don't do that. And now you're sitting there like, man, this sucks. And you go do something else.
Marcus Cauchi: I've been interviewing a number of junior sales people who've gone through sdr, maybe moving into an AE role.
And there are some common themes. The first one is the high turnover rate. What on God's earth is that about? Why would you burn through so many reps?
Common theme: SDR high turnover rates
Morgan J Ingram: I think it's one of those things is that because you can, right? In some organizations, they know, Hey, look, we have a good name, or, Hey, we have a good product and now we can just, we can just go through as many reps as possible.
And so let's just keep getting them. And if you don't work, you don't work. And also it comes down to managers as well, is that, Hey, I was a top rep at some point as a manager, right? And I'm now a new manager. And if you don't, do it the way that I did it. Then I'm like, You're [00:02:00] just not good. And then I'm just gonna, you're gonna be burnt out and I'm gonna find the person that wants to do what I wanna do.
So it's those two sides of the coin that make it hard for someone coming into the role if they don't get proper coaching and if they're just like, Well, we just see you as a number, just keep coming in.
Marcus Cauchi: I'll come back to coaching in a minute cuz it's a particular bug bear of mine and it'll be an important part of this conversation.
Often what I see is companies recruit, they create this revolving door in sales and they recruit 12, and the hope that three or four might work out of those three or four, the ones that get promoted into management are the top producers, not the ones best suited for management. So again, what are you seeing in terms of the most enlightened forward thinking companies in terms of identifying people who have management capability and they are training them and giving them a career path to develop those skills before they move into management?
What are you seeing in terms of the most enlightened forward thinking companies in terms of identifying people who have management capability and they are training them and giving them a career path to develop those skills before they move into management?
Morgan J Ingram: Yeah. So I mean, the first part, you know, Marcus, we could both agree on this, is that just because [00:03:00] you do really well individual contributor role does not mean that you'll be a great manager.
Marcus Cauchi: Absolutely.
Morgan J Ingram: So what you should be looking for as a leader to figure out who's going through the manager is couple things. One is, is the rep proactively coaching already. Are they helping people out? Are they giving advice without you being having to, without you having to tell them to do it? So they're already showing signs of that leadership.
Two is they take on additional projects that maybe are outside the sales team. They're working with marketing, they're working with customer success. They're doing those things as well. And number three is what I'm looking out for. If that, if that person's a rep is, are they, proactively going to the manager and looking for coaching themselves, right?
So then I know that when this manager becomes a manager, that means that they are willing to humble themselves to figure out like, I don't know everything. I need to go learn some information. So those are three things that I look for to figure out like if this [00:04:00] person can be a leader, if they're not doing these things, they're not a bad person, but you just probably aren't fit to be that effective of a leader cuz you're not showing those signs early.
Marcus Cauchi: Absolutely. You need to be vulnerable, which requires courage. You need to be open-minded, otherwise you're gonna be brittle. When it comes to criticism, you need to invite the feedback, even when you'd rather not hear it because it hurts, and you have to be proactive in terms of how you're helping others.
The best managers are rarely the top producers. They're often the ones that have the wides and deepest camp penetration. They're the ones that are definitively going out there and coaching and helping other people. They're the ones that roll up their sleeves cuz they derive satisfaction from seeing others succeed.
Okay, so tell me this. Onboarding. My experience, uh, for a lot of organizations is, congratulations, you're a salesperson now. Here's a phone. Here's a list. Call. What are you advising your clients to do [00:05:00] in terms of a proper structured onboarding process and over what period of time?
What are you advising your clients to do in terms of a proper structured onboarding process and over what period of time?
Morgan J Ingram: Yeah, so Marcus, you're right.
It's like, here's your key card, there's the bathroom, here's the phone, get after it. Good luck, right? Maybe there's the coffee machine if you got the one, right? So
Marcus Cauchi: most, most of the people I know just got told to be in the corner.
Morgan J Ingram: So we, we gotta evolve past that, right? So first and foremost, it's, it's 90 days, especially if we're talking about SDRs.
It's 90 days. You will be able to make a decision if this SDR is going to be great, good, or someone who's not gonna last very long. You can decipher that in 90 days. Now what do you do in those 90 days? When someone first comes in, the, the, one of the very first things that you should do, and this is what we did when I was onboarding reps and when I suggest my clients to do, is say, Hey, look,
show them the landscape of the market. And what I mean by that is what do we stand for? Why are we even here? Right? Why are we a company and then who are our competitors? And who are we? Who are we going [00:06:00] after? I think that a lot of times, and I know a lot of times is that SDRs are calling people and they have no idea why they're calling them.
Marcus Cauchi: Yeah.
Morgan J Ingram: I could, I could ask a rep, like, Why are you calling the CIO? They have no idea. They just know they need to call them to hit their number, but they don't know why they're calling.
Marcus Cauchi: I've just come off an interview with David Henzel, who's set up up coach and, uh, raft of others, uh, Max CDN and so on, and he says that he starts each conversation with his teams around vision, mission, and values.
And that's what you've just described there, uh, in the recruitment process. If you don't talk about those things, particularly with the millennials and Gen Z. Then you're gonna lose those people because they, they wanna do something more than just be a grunt. Fair?
Morgan J Ingram: Yep. Absolutely.
Marcus Cauchi: Building on that, so understanding why they're, they're in business, what next?
Morgan J Ingram: So now that you understand that now we have to get to the soft skills, right? And understanding in [00:07:00] business like this should be something that's ongoing, but the first two weeks should be dedicated to that as part of the onboarding process, obviously,
Marcus Cauchi: and by soft skills you mean?
Morgan J Ingram: So soft skills, and what I get into that is like cold calling, right?
How to write emails, organizational time. Now, the way to expedite that, you can't really do it to in today's world, but like if we will go, go back to the office, right? In a normal onboarding setting is to have them shadow one of the reps. So every single rep that came in as part of the class, they would then be a shadow to one of the reps and you would see how they make calls, how they do emails, how they organize their time.
So then that got the onboarding process faster. And then before we, we did it this. Everyone's different, but I just suggest we did a cold calling certification process before you could get on the phones. So you had to do a mock cold call with us and we had to determine whether or not you were ready to get on the phone because if you sounded shaky then we wouldn't get you on the phone yet.
We would have to make sure that you sounded legit before you could move forward. So like those are things that we did. [00:08:00]
Marcus Cauchi: Okay. I noticed gladly that there's no mention of product.
Morgan J Ingram: Not, not yet. See so not, not yet, cuz I, Well it is up happening is you give them too much product and they get overwhelmed and then they feel like they have dispute on people and product is like right after the skills.
So I, the product is the third piece. Now, here's the thing. Everyone's gonna have different debates on this. They're gonna be like, Well, Morgan, like they need to know the product. Or like, we have a very complex product and need to learn it. I understand that. I understand that piece, right. But again, to your point, they need to know those other two things before we even get to the product.
Marcus Cauchi: No one in the history of humanity has ever bought your product. No one buys sales training. No one buys CRM systems. No one buys routers and, uh, no one buys ERP systems. Those are the means to an end, and no one cares. It's like showing photos of your ugly children to strangers. So when you talk [00:09:00] about the product, how important is it?
The sales rep is always equipped with a question. Well, Morgan, that's great, but why would anyone care? And how do I use that information to sell it?
When you talk about the product, how important is it?
Morgan J Ingram: We're only giving product information that's enough for them to be dangerous, but not to overwhelm them.
Marcus Cauchi: Right.
Morgan J Ingram: Cause that's when is happening, right. I give you all this product knowledge, like you said, like everything that people are buying is to, like we were, we're talking about here to solve your problem, to accomplish a priority.
Right? And that's why I'm gonna get it, right. Am I in love with chairs? No, but , but I sit in the sweats more comfortable, right? So like that's the thing right there that we're talking about. So at the end of the day, I'm giving you just product knowledge because we know there's certain objections that are gonna come up, so you need to at least be knowledgeable to some degree.
But I'm not gonna give you every single thing about the product because you're gonna be so overwhelmed and you're just gonna value vomit on people. And that's what I hear a lot is people know all these things about the product, but they don't have the soft skills to convert the meeting. [00:10:00] It's like you're not a, you're not a commercial, right?
You're, you're a salesperson to get people's contacts so that they can schedule that meeting. So that's why there's gonna be product knowledge in there, but it's enough for you to be dangerous, not to overwhelm you.
What are you teaching people about listening?
Marcus Cauchi: What are you teaching people about listening?
Morgan J Ingram: That's key. So, in an act of listening, right? One thing I tell people is when you're in a conversation, listen for words that don't sound normal.
Marcus Cauchi: Can you gimme an example?
Morgan J Ingram: So I'll give you an example. So if you're having a- let's say I'm called someone and they're talking about sales training, and they say, yeah, like, our team is skyrocketing right now. I'm like, skyrocketing. Like, what does that mean? Right? Or someone's like, Yeah, you know, our, our quotas have been like changing and our team's a little bit wishy washy on their skills, and I'm like, oh, wishy washy.
Like, what does that mean? So there's certain words that like people say in a conversation where you're like, All right, that word is an abnormal word. Let's drill deeper into that, right? So I find certain words that [00:11:00] people will say like, lower, skyrocketing it. No, what Some people say, We're all set. Like I always just drill in certain words that like, Okay, that doesn't make sense there.
Let's figure out what that really does mean. Because in conversations, people give you clues, yet you have to hone in to figure out where is that word or where's that clue so I can uncover what's really going on. So that's why I teach people active listening. And then over time you get better once you start listening for words that like don't make sense, and then your conversations get better.
Marcus Cauchi: So I mean the, the fundamental rule here is prospects will tell you how to sell to them.
Morgan J Ingram: Absolutely.
Marcus Cauchi: And if you listen for those words and then you reflect them back, they will typically go. And your job is to gather information. It's not to give it. Um, but so many sales people get taught a script. They get taught to pitch.
I mean, when, when was the last time anybody enjoyed being sold to? It doesn't happen. People hate to be sold. They love to buy, [00:12:00] but they hate to be sold.
Morgan J Ingram: Hate it.
Marcus Cauchi: Why is it that still? I mean, it's, it's not like the, the evidence isn't out there.
Morgan J Ingram: Mm-hmm.
Marcus Cauchi: uh, we only have to look at our own experience of the misery that we have to go through when bad sales reps pitch us.
Why is it that manages keep banging the drum about core rates and number of dials rather than focusing on the quality of the call and having fewer calls of higher quality?
Morgan J Ingram: So, so it's two things. One is, and this is, this is for y'all out there. Get rid of the scripts.
Marcus Cauchi: Yep.
Morgan J Ingram: Like I, I do not like scripts.
What I believe in is formulas. Because with the formula, it allows people to add their personality to it. With the script, I'm telling you exactly what to do. I'm like, All right, you have to do this way. I give suggestions based on the formula that I have, but if you follow the formula, it will work, right. If you don't, then you know, just follow it,
right. So that's number one is that there's scripts out there, and then now you're telling me to two. My second point is to make these calls. Now I tell people, right? You should tell your team, This is an expectation we have. [00:13:00] Hey, this is what you should do if you want to be successful. However, it's not a requirement because you may find other ways to be successful.
You may not have to make as many vows as that person over there because you might get on the phone and actually be able to convert more. So what I'm more focused on is what's the process of your cold call? Like when you get on the phone, can you convert? So we would always have coaching around what's your intro?
How do you handle objections? How are you leaving voicemails? Like, that's what I care about. Make your dials. Make your dials. The only time I'm gonna get upset with someone and have a conversation with them about dial metrics is if they're not doing well. But hey, look, this is the expectation you should do this.
We've seen this to be successful, but really what I'm focused on is what is your output? What is your results? If you're making 20 calls a day and you're getting the the same results as someone's making a hundred calls a day, then that person with 20 calls a day is clearly doing something right. So I think we focus way too much on the metrics and like forcing on everyone and not look at indi, each individual rep to figure out like what is best for them.
Marcus Cauchi: Uh, I extracting a number of points from [00:14:00] what you've just said. The obsession with efficiency over effectiveness is, uh, a huge problem. I think so many people measure the wrong things because having an effective call is better than having a hundred ineffective calls. We see so many people operating on the mock basis of using a script, but there's a fundamental flaw with that, which is the prospect doesn't have the script and doesn't follow it.
So the minute they go off script, then you get derailed and that's where you're like,
Morgan J Ingram: Ah,
Marcus Cauchi: yeah, absolutely. And again, more often than not, we haven't touched on this yet, but I'm curious, what about intent? When you are calling, what does your intent need to be?
Morgan J Ingram: So when you say intent, does that mean like what is your intro or are you saying
Marcus Cauchi: what's your intention with the call and where? Where does your focus need to be?
What's your intention with the call and where does your focus need to be?
Morgan J Ingram: So, Okay, got it. So your focus for the call, especially [00:15:00] for SDR or really anyone who's prospecting and looking to get a meeting, is to get a meeting. Your goal is to close for a meeting. It isn't to, unless you have a very transac transactional cell, is to close just for the meeting and to get next steps there.
So if you're sitting on that phone call and you're there for like 30, 40 minutes, like that's not the purpose of it. The purpose is, Hey, I'm calling you to get interest. Right? To figure out like, is there a little bit of interest for you to move forward the next step, which is a meeting, I'm gonna then meet with you to figure out like, okay, is there enough desire for this person to actually
buy whatever I'm selling them based on the problems or parties that they have. So the, your intention should always be, I'm looking to close for the meeting, and that's it. If you, if you think of anything else, then that's why you're probably getting derailed on calls right now.
Marcus Cauchi: Okay. Do you mind if I challenge you a little?
Morgan J Ingram: Yeah.
Marcus Cauchi: I think I, if we're all we're doing is we're focused on our selfish self-interest
Morgan J Ingram: mm-hmm.
Marcus Cauchi: Which is securing the meeting, then that's projected out and reflected back by the prospect. Certainly what I'm [00:16:00] teaching my clients is that we have to establish. Can we help if we can? Are we the right people to help?
Can we help if we can? Are we the right people to help?
Marcus Cauchi: And then we do them a disservice if we do not secure the meeting. But I think part of the problem so often is that sales people meet every stereotype that we as buyers hate, which is that they're pushy and they're self interest and they greedy and so on. So, I, I just tempered that with a, a little bit of for thought and the insight that
if you are establishing whether or not you can help and serve that person, then it doesn't feel like you're trying to put your hand in their pocket. And that, that's certainly been my experience, uh, both being on the receiving end and early in my career where I was so fixated on hitting my quota that I didn't really get permission, I wasn't nurturing, I didn't listen, and all of these things worked against me and it took years.
Because I didn't have coaching to work it out for [00:17:00] myself. Uh, your thoughts?
Morgan J Ingram: So I, I agree with that. So, to go on what I was saying, an intent is I feel like when people make cold calls, they just make calls to make calls, and they're just like, I'm just doing my thing.
Marcus Cauchi: Yeah.
Morgan J Ingram: And when they get on the call, they don't close for next steps when, like you just said.
They need to, they go on a dialogue and they continue to have our conversation and they never close. They expect the prospect to close themselves. So when I say, Hey, your intention to be to set the meeting, it's no win to close based on when you've done that active listen that we just talked about, because a lot of people, and when I coach people, is they never ask for the next steps.
They never guide the prospect to where they need to go. They are just hoping that the prospect just says, I really like this, and move forward, which we know that's not gonna happen for the most part, so that when I say set the meeting, I mean make sure that you're closing for next steps when you've done everything that you just said, Marcus, because I feel like that's a key step that people just completely miss and they're just expecting people to be like, Oh, this sounds awesome.
Let me meet [00:18:00] with you. And we know that's not gonna happen.
Marcus Cauchi: They're also waiting to trip over the value of lost prospects as well. So again, rule of thumb, in my experience, if a call is shorter than three minutes or longer than eight minutes, there's something that you're doing wrong. Either you're calling the wrong people or you're not engaging and you're not creating enough curiosity and value early, or you're moving into selling.
If you go over eight minutes, virtually every successful, uh, cold call that I've come across is within that sort of range. And again, it's important that you as an SDR listen to your own calls. Now, under lockdown, you should be recording pretty much every call and uh, if you're not using conversational analytics tools like Gong or Refract or Chorus, then pay for it yourself if you have to so you can get better. Thoughts?
Self-Development
Morgan J Ingram: I agree on that. I, you have to own your development. This [00:19:00] is something that I, when people are like, Well, what if my manager like doesn't help me? It's like, All right, well, there's YouTube, LinkedIn, podcast courses, like there's so many things out here that if you're not owning your own develop, it's ultimately going to be on you because there is too many resources to blame someone else, and so you should look at yourself and be like, all right, what tools and resources do I need?
And I do that all the time. Aw, man, you know what? I'm not doing well in this area. Let me go find the resource to help me. I don't complain and point at figures at other people. I always point it back on myself. So if you're out there saying, Oh, well, no one's helping me, like help yourself and go find these resources.
Invest in yourself and take 20. I think it's like, yeah, I take 20% of the income I make per month and it's been allocated towards personal development. Now, whether that's a course, a book or whatever I decide to do, I encourage you to do the same thing because if you invest in yourself, that always is gonna be ROI positive if you execute and do something.
Marcus Cauchi: Fabulous philosophy. And also just a, a word of [00:20:00] warning to those of you who are saying, Well, my company's not investing in me. The bad news is your CEO, your VP of sales and your sales manager are still getting their mortgages paid while you're starving. Invest in yourself. Um, okay, so let, let's look at the kind of culture that is created within many SDR teams.
You and I both work to a large extent within tech scale up, uh, marketplace. Why is it that there are so many funded organizations that have been invested in by VC or private equity that drive burnout and really crappy behaviors, why do they keep doing it?
Why is it that there are so many funded organizations that have been invested in by VC or private equity that drive burnout and really crappy behaviors, why do they keep doing it?
Morgan J Ingram: Well, because they always know there's gonna be a ne next man up mentality.
There's always gonna be that rep who's gonna be hungry to come in and will just go through it. And also as well, you have to look, you know, you mentioned it. From the investor side is that the investors are like, All right, I put [00:21:00] X amount of money into this company and I need to get it back. So our projected revenue goals are
5.5 x than what they probably normally should be, right? Then obviously the VP of sales has to take that and be like, All right guys, we gotta hit these numbers, and they're just gonna drive you and drive you and drive you, and as they're driving you, there is no conversation around mental health. What should you be doing for escapisms like, taking walks or if you play games or if you read books or whatever that is, and there's no conversations around that.
So you come into an organization and it's just like, Hey, your job is just to hit this number. Best of luck. We don't really not gonna give you any training. We're just gonna tell you to go out there. And then you're also not told to like, have your time to take those mental breaks so you don't have that burnout.
And then they also know that, Hey, look, I can just get more people if you're not, if this isn't for you. So that's what's happening, and it's, it's not good. And I'm, I'm hoping that throughout this entire thing that's been happening, that people are starting to open their [00:22:00] eyes and realize that like, Oh, okay, like I can
have a flow within my life where if I prioritize my time, I can get myself, I can get my stuff done and also get away from the work. So it's not consuming me and I, and I have this burnout. So that's really like the cycle that's happening. And it's unfortunate.
Marcus Cauchi: Well, the research on this, I interviewed Michael Puck, who, uh, works for a unified cro, uh, Cronos now, and he's cited some research that highly engaged employees
generate 290% higher revenue per employee. So if you don't care about your people and you only care about your pocketbook and the, uh, ROI, having your people, your reps highly engaged, and your SDR is highly engaged, which means training them, being, uh, aligning them to your mission, core, uh, core mission and values.
Coaching them, helping them develop themselves as a career, making them feel valued, being [00:23:00] inclusive in your management, helping them have a voice is actually likely to almost triple the revenue that you're gonna generate out of each one of them. It's a false economy not to do it. So I interviewed, uh, a great, uh, rep, Emily Lamb a couple of weeks back.
Morgan J Ingram: Mm-hmm.
Marcus Cauchi: and she said that she'd been through five jobs in five years. and that she found her groove now and she's doing really well. She's been promoted into an AE role, but you know, it was 12 people being hired, five making it through, one of them doing okay, the other three or four struggling. And it just strikes me that there's nowhere near enough learning going on, uh, in terms of lesson capture.
Because one of the things that struck me from that conversation where people were making the same mistake time and time and time and time again. And interviewing David Henzel, you know, he talks [00:24:00] about everybody having to, uh, put their mistakes into an error log. You don't get punished for making a mistake. You're punished for hiding it.
And why is it so few junior sales salespeople, well actually say senior salespeople too, have a habit of lesson capture?
Why is it so few junior sales salespeople and senior salespeople have a habit of lesson capture?
Morgan J Ingram: So I think from the lesson capture aspect is that, well from an earlier stage, right, is that you probably don't know how to go about and do that, so you're probably just like, I'm hoping that people just give me the lessons,
right? And I think from the senior level, sometimes, not all, but sometimes people might be like, Yeah, uh, I'm good. I don't, I don't wanna even wanna learn anything more cause I got it. Right. So you got these like two stages, right? So I think from the earlier part, like we'll go there is that you don't know how to really capture it
and also you're not documenting what you're doing. And I always tell people that like, Hey, if you got let go, like document like what happened, right? What were the lessons in there? But I think what happens is we just like think about the next [00:25:00] thing. We're like, Oh, that didn't work, so let me just go to the next thing there.
And not like documenting like what's working and what's not. Because people move so fast, they don't take that time to really collect that data so that, that's where I really sit there is I think a lot of people don't know what what to do there. And I think because it's moving so fast, which is not an excuse, you should take the time to be like, okay, what makes a good email, What makes a good cold call?
And like having that documentation. And what, and this is my last bit of advice on this right here, is that my former boss always told me, you wanna leave somewhere better than where you found it. So you wanna have the resources, the documentation of what you did. So when you leave, you left some type of legacy within that department, organization, company, whatever level that you're at.
Marcus Cauchi: Good advice again. So again, make a point of capturing the lessons after the calls. Maybe call for 20 minutes, write down your lessons as you go, and then take five minutes to reflect, capture those lessons, see what you could do better or differently the next time you face the same situation. [00:26:00] Uh, a journal is a really powerful tool.
Yeah, uh, again, something that should be implemented from at a management level and made part of the recruitment process. So that people expect to keep that journal and then share those lessons. One of the things that I've found incredibly powerful is everyone, uh, captures three lessons a day. And on the daily huddle, uh, they share their lessons.
On a Friday, someone teaches the lessons that they've learned that week, and the quickest way to learn something is to teaching. So get into the habit of supporting the other reps around you and, uh, training and helping them and look for them to help you back as well. Okay. So tell me this, if we look at the structure of SDR teams, you've got people who are new, they're shadowing people who more experienced, they've got managers.
How do you suggest that people make the best [00:27:00] use of the range of skill, the range of experience within teams or pods in order to advance themselves?
How do you suggest that people make the best use of the range of skill, the range of experience within teams or pods in order to advance themselves?
Morgan J Ingram: So when you say advance themselves, is that like advance themselves into like a promotion, like an AE or customer success in
Marcus Cauchi: the role skills, first of all, in that role so that they get better and then to advance themselves in terms of career to get a promotion?
Morgan J Ingram: Yeah, so what should be happening is there should be peer led training. And a lot of teams don't do this. It's only the manager. They're like, All right, here comes Bobby, the manager again. And I gotta listen to him drone about whatever he's gonna drone about. And so you start to get annoyed. You start to be bored.
You start to be like, I don't wanna listen to Bobby even though he is my manager. Right. So what reps will execute on is if they see another rep that's more successful than them, right? Cuz they're gonna internally see that as like, that's my competition. Even though you're the same team. You still like, Hey, I still wanna be at the top for myself.
So when [00:28:00] a peer comes into the training, it will be on certain skills. So when you take your SDR team, you need to break it down into what are the skills that they're learning in this role. So there's a couple, right? Cold calling skills, objection handling, writing, emails, time management, video selling sales, right?
And direct mail, right? So, and et cetera. There's a ton. So the thing, act listening. So the thing is that I'm going to then put all these skills down to figure out like, who on my team is the best at this? Sally's a great writer. Brent's a great caller. Samantha's a great person on video. So when now I'm gonna do is focus on them to figure out like, how are they doing this really well?
And so then I'm gonna ask them, Hey, can you, can you lead a quick training for the team, like 45 minutes? And the thing is that we talked about burnout that is going to make the SDR more engaged. Oh, I got asked to do a training for my team. That's awesome, right? SDRs don't get asked that. So now I'm building engagement within my team.
I'm also getting the rep to share [00:29:00] their insights, and it's not me anymore right now, because they're sharing their insights. People actually do the skills more. And then ultimately, because everyone is sharing their skills, everyone is engaged, everyone is involved with the team, and it's like a family. Now,
it's gonna be easier for these people to get promotion. Because everyone's learning all these different skills from people all across the way, and it's not just this one rep doing their one thing that they're great at. So if you're looking to have advancement of skills, you're looking to promote your people, like leverage your team because they have all great skills, and then have them do peer led trainings in coaching sessions.
Marcus Cauchi: Well, you, you've also touched on something else which happens. Well, an emission that occurs, which is that most training is one and done. And, uh, training should be ongoing. You should be training your team every week, and, uh, they should be training themselves pretty much every day. If you look at the best performers, they're constantly listening, reading, learning, and how many books and podcasts and [00:30:00] videos are you getting through on an average month?
Personally?
How many books and podcasts and videos are you getting through on an average month?
Morgan J Ingram: Wow. So I would probably say now, Because it's changed, right Before it wasn't as much because every single week I was travelling. So I was on a plane in a Lyft, in a hotel. I, I didn't do it as much. Right now, I, I've, I'm back on pace, so I'm doing two to three a month books, podcasts. I'll do probably five to 10 a month.
I normally will play like games while I have a podcast in the background, and then I'll like pause a game and then I'll take notes on it right as I'm listening to it because there's certain tactical advice I want in there. And then in terms of webinars. I don't go to that many webinars, but what I do now is I'll have like YouTube channels I'll watch in the morning.
So I'll like do my stretches in the morning and then I'll turn on a YouTube channel that I will follow. It might be an interview, it might be a quick snippet of a how to, and I'll take that information in as well. [00:31:00] So I'm always continuously learning no matter what, and I'm continuously growing myself.
Cuz if you grow your mind, the more you go your mind, the more results you can get. And if you aren't doing these things, then that's where you're gonna start seeing the results that you don't want. Because at the end of the day, you have to be proactively doing so out things outside of your nine to five. Outside of your nine to five is where you thrive.
I always tell people, and if you're doing these extra things by reading, absorbing resources, getting a mentor, these things are important.
Marcus Cauchi: I misheard you then. I thought you said breeding for a second. You need to do that too.
Morgan J Ingram: Say it's on the side, you know.
Marcus Cauchi: So moving swiftly on before (inaudible) so if I look at the best sales people that I've ever known, they invite
help. They're vulnerable. They ask for coaching. They get, they, they actively seek out coaches. I mean, personally, I have six coaches that I go to on a [00:32:00] regular basis. I have one for, uh, my business, uh, one for my sales. I have another one for my video. Uh, have a couple more around, uh, mental positioning and uh, mental health.
And what's interesting is there's not a time goes by where I can't get better. And I think one of the problems is that mentally a lot of people say, oh, you know, I've got that experience. I don't need to learn. You do. Cuz your competition is just what gonna wipe you out? You know, there's an old proverb, which is if you're green, you grow.
If you rip, you rot. And I, I think far too many people become functionally illiterate when they leave school and in sales it's essential. Virtually every one of the top performing managers and sales leaders I know as part of their interview will ask what someone is doing to expand their skills and what they're reading, what courses they put themselves on, [00:33:00] and almost without fail, they won't take someone on who hasn't invested in themselves on a regular basis, let alone within the last six months.
Morgan J Ingram: You have to, And that was a question we asked in our interview. It was like, what is the last book that you've read and what was the reason you picked it up? And so if someone can't answer that question, then I automatically know, okay, this one person is a proactive learner that doesn't completely disqualify them,
but now I have a different perspective on them.
Marcus Cauchi: What about if we look at the reps who are really at the top of their game and then they make an intentional contribution to others? How far and fast do they get on when they take people under their wing where they proactively coach?
What about if we look at the reps who are really at the top of their game and then they make an intentional contribution to others? How far and fast do they get on when they take people under their wing where they proactively coach?
Morgan J Ingram: They're gonna move faster because what they're doing is, is now they are coaching someone on something that they have seen success with.
So now it comes to test of time is, Hey, you did this, but can you articulate it to someone else? Right. So that's like the next [00:34:00] step of the learning process of the retention process. So you're gonna be way further along because you're gonna be able to explain things and help others succeed. Whereas, hey, there's some things that you naturally can do and they're unexplainable.
You can only do them, right? But if I could break it down to a, a process, a system, a formula that's gonna make it more repeatable for everyone in the organization and that's gonna make you more valuable. Cuz now you can really articulate and explain this.
Marcus Cauchi: In order to teach someone, you really have to own that material.
Yeah. And if you wanna master something, it definitely makes sense to teach it. And one of the key rules of thumb that I teach my clients is if you learn something, teach it to someone else within 24 hours.
Morgan J Ingram: Yeah. Yeah.
Marcus Cauchi: Okay. So Morgan, tell me this, what, what are you struggling with? What are you wrestling with at the moment?
What are you wrestling with at the moment?
Morgan J Ingram: The thing I'm struggling with is, is personally, keeping up with family, keeping up with my friends, making sure to keep the [00:35:00] intensity with the relationship with my girlfriend. I really struggle with personal relationships because I'm so locked in professionally on certain things. I will just get consumed by it, like I could
you could lock me in a room for, for six months and tell me to go work or something, I will just be locked in. So I don't do as well with my personal relationships, and I do struggle with that. And they can sometimes be put on the wayside. So what I'm working on now is proactively reaching to my friends, ask them, hey, like, let's hang out.
Let's watch a game. Let's do something because I will easily just forget that and just like focus on work. And so that, that's what I struggle with the good bit. And it's been an ongoing struggle for years, but just during this time, I've been able to obviously slow down and then now I can have those conversations and, and start building back the relationships that I had that are really strong at the end of the day.
Marcus Cauchi: Yeah, I struggle with this. Being an obsessive addictive personality doesn't help.
Morgan J Ingram: Yeah. It really doesn't. Cause you're, you're so obsessed with completing this project or accomplishing this initiative and you just forget everything else. [00:36:00]
Marcus Cauchi: Isn't it more of it? It is just so much damn fun. Honestly, I haven't done a day's work in 17 years.
I just get paid to play.
Yeah. Yeah.
It really is hideously addictive.
Morgan J Ingram: I'll add to that before your question mark, because one thing I tell people is that the work will never hurt you. And what I mean by that is that people are fickle, right? Like their emotions are wrapped into it. If you put in the work, the work rule will reward you.
It's a logical and absolute fact. So because I have a financial logical brain, it's like, all right, well if you put in the work into this equation, it will equal a result and there's no way around it that it won't equal a result. And so I, like you said, it's so much fun just addicting cuz I know like if I do this stuff, it will help when you have personal relationships, humans are humans, so it's like, oh, they're all over the place.
And so like that's, I know that about myself and I'm always like, Oh, if I put in the work. I know I can, I can lean on that all day long too. So I dunno if you're the same way, but like that's how I think about it as well.[00:37:00]
Marcus Cauchi: Excellent. Um, so tell me this, what are you watching, reading, listening to that you really rate and would recommend to others?
What are you watching, reading, listening to that you really rate and would recommend to others?
Morgan J Ingram: I really like Valutainment Patrick Bet David, I just read his book, Your Next Five Moves, so I, I recommend the book. Would also recommend his YouTube channel. Really great there. I also would recommend Tom Bilyeu Impact Theory.
Marcus Cauchi: Right. Okay. Bilyeu. B I L Y E U?
Morgan J Ingram: Yep. B I L. Yep, that's right. So he's great. I really like his stuff.
And then, you know, I was gonna give a shout out to my guy, Gary Vaynerchuk. He's always given just great knowledge and great insights. Like those are the three people that I'm absorbing a lot of their content right now. And learning as much as I can. I don't try to learn from like 50 people at once. I feel like that's, that's overwhelming.
I normally try to stick it a three to five. So like those three people, I normally watch their content and I'm like, all right, that makes sense. Let me go execute on that.
Marcus Cauchi: And is, is there a book that's had a life changing impact on you?
Morgan J Ingram: The Law
of Success behind Napoleon Hill.
Marcus Cauchi: All right. [00:38:00] Okay. Have you read
Morgan J Ingram: Thinking Rich?
Marcus Cauchi: Outwitting the Devil?
Morgan J Ingram: So I have not read that one. That's good. But I've read Love Success Thinking Go Rich, but I haven't Outwitting The Devil. I haven't
Marcus Cauchi: Outwitting The Devil. I read it a couple of weeks ago. Well worth of, uh, a read.
Morgan J Ingram: It was good?
Marcus Cauchi: Also available on Audible now as well.
Morgan J Ingram: Nice.
Okay. I'll go check it up.
Marcus Cauchi: Good stuff.
Okay. You've got a golden ticket. And I know that your 23 year old idiot self would probably ignore the advice . This isn't, this isn't about regret, but what one choice, bit of advice would you give your 23 year old self?
What one choice, bit of advice would you give your 18 year old self?
Morgan J Ingram: So I was 23, 4 years ago, so, so, so now I gotta figure out what I would tell myself for,
Marcus Cauchi: You're using your 18 year
old self then
Morgan J Ingram: Let's go to, Let's go to 18. All right. So what I tell. Man, I mean, there's a, there's a lot of stuff that like, now I think about, I'm like, man, I just wish I would do that. I think this is, this advice is critical. Cause I think a lot of people struggle with this, and I've been able to now [00:39:00] accept this advice.
Think at 18 I would've been like, whatever is truly, don't care about anyone else's opinions and stay in your lane. Because a lot of times we just concern ourselves about other people's opinions and what they're gonna say about us. and that prevents us from doing things that we would like to do, creating the content we like to create, taking the job that we like to do, and then now we're just predicated on what other people's opinions are and making other people feel great.
When it's ultimately it's like, no, like this is what I like to do, this is who I am, this is what I want to go do. This is how I feel about these certain topics. And I don't need to character anyone else because like I know who I am and most people, you know, they interact with don't know you a hundred percent.
And that's the advice I would give my 18 year old self. Cause I think we're so, especially in that age, right? You're so consumed about what everyone else is thinking. My, my perception, my, my image, right? Like at this point it's like, look, Do what you need to do. Stay in your lane. Do it makes you happy, do it, makes you fulfilled.
And I think a lot of people just only [00:40:00] focus on what other people are thinking, which leads them to not how the happiest fulfillment that they are looking for.
Marcus Cauchi: So be true to yourself.
Morgan J Ingram: Yeah.
Marcus Cauchi: And don't fret that other people may or may not like you. Don't people please just make sure that you're being true to yourself.
Morgan J Ingram: Absolutely
Marcus Cauchi: fabulous. Excellent. Morgan, how can people get a hold of you?
How can people get a hold of you?
Morgan J Ingram: So, best way to get a hold of me. Follow me on Instagram @morganjingram, or you can also go on LinkedIn, Morgan J Ingram as well. Those are the two places to go find me.
Marcus Cauchi: Excellent, wonderful Morgan J Ingram. Thank you.
Morgan J Ingram: Thank you, Marcus.
Marcus Cauchi: So this is Marcus Cauchi signing off once again from The Inquisitor Podcast.
If you've enjoyed this conversation, then please get in touch with Morgan or myself. My email address is marcuscauchi@me.com and marcus@laughs-last.com. marcus@laughs-last.com. And if you think you'd be a good guest or you know someone who would be, [00:41:00] then please put us in touch and I'll see if I can get them on as a guest.
In the meantime, stay safe. Happy selling. Bye bye.
